In this episode, we talk with Tara from MarketingArtfully. Tara is a total SEO guru so we’re super excited to chat with her this week. She talks about pinterest, category pages, knowing your customer and how she uses Marmalead to plan for estate sales. Stick around till the end when Tara shares her Vintage Seller eBook with everyone! Enjoy!
what is up guys welcome to Etsy Jam in this episode we talk with Tara from marketing artfully Tara is a total SEO guru so we are super excited to chat with her this week she talks about Pinterest category pages knowing your customer and how she uses marmalade to plan for estate sales stick around to the end when Tara shares her vintage seller eBook with everyone and joy what is up guys welcome to Etsy Jam I am Gordon from marmalade and I am Richie from marmalade and if you don't know what marmalade is marmalade is what makes this etsy jam possible Gordon and I do that full-time and marmalade is the best Etsy SEO tool for serious sellers now if you want to find it you can go to marmalade comment spelled just like it sounds or you can google it even if you Google marmalade we broke Google and we show up at the top for marmalade now because that's definitely what you're looking for is marmalade not marmalade even though it is delicious this week we have a very special guest with us we have Tara Jacobsen who is a complete SEO guru you can find her at marketing artfully and she also has a couple Etsy shops paper ly people and so glamorously vintage so she does sell vintage things on Etsy and we thought this would be a fantastic opportunity to talk to a vintage seller on Etsy and kind of dig into the guts of that area because it so often kind of pushed by the wayside and forgotten and we don't actually even do a very good job of talking about it as much as we should inside of Etsy Jam and on our blog and stuff like that too so we thought this would be a fantastic opportunity to do that but thank you for joining us today ter it's fantastic to have you with us nice to be here so do you want to start things off and give a little bit of background about yourself and how you got started where you came from how you got involved with Etsy sure so I have been doing marketing since 2001 in SEO like plain SEO Google SEO so I've come up through all the websites there was really almost not a Google then it was Yahoo and all that stuff and so I have done marketing for Realtors authors and I see people for years and a while ago I thought probably a year and a half ago I thought oh my gosh I should sell digital products and like the the the least hard way to do that right at that time was through Etsy and so that's my paper really people shop I have like nine hundred sales on there I'm getting ready to to hopefully they at the end of this season talk that thousand mark which is an awesome nice and so selling digital is awesome like it's very low maintenance I think Etsy does an amazing job at managing the logins and the users and all the things I have a Shopify store that does a nice job too but that's you know like Etsy is really easy if you're doing digital so then um my husband and I adopted three kids right one is now nine one is twelve and one is eighteen but especially when the little one was littler I was like I can't keep working on my computer or 15 hours a day he doesn't really like that can only imagine and I've always bought like vintage stuff and I like vintage stuff like my office is full of vintage stuff I I just have an old soul and I like that and so right as I was moving one of my girlfriend's was actually selling on eBay I moved here about eight months ago um to Florida and and she was selling on eBay she was crushing it and I'm like oh me and I would love that but do I really want to do eBay and I was like okay I'm gonna see what I can do with vintage on Etsy hmm I have an eBay store too um it's just easy they're all easy to do people I feel like make it really hard but it's super easy and so I started that I think I can't remember how many sales I'm at I have a couple I have over a hundred sales I don't know how many more I just made another sale but I moved to the land of old dears right like so I live in Florida now and there are so many old gears here and a lot of estate sales because they pop their clogs right yeah oh so it's glorious and I really love we have a huge house and yeah I have like three racks in the garage we have an upstairs room that nobody goes in so I kind of took that over but it's really really fun I enjoy it I actually love selling physical products I have never you know I sold digital projects I did marketing I made websites I did s like I never had something physical to sell and I totally dig it so am i sorry sorry so you kind of got into selling vintage just by kind of having a love for vintage things yourself and having them around your house it sounds like yeah it's fun like I just like the fact that each one is one of the things that the vintage sellers ate is that each one is a different item right yeah I love that each one is a different item because like it's a little different marketing thing figuring out who would buy this what didn't you say that would make somebody this was a this thing I sold today for $16.50 was a vintage stemmed pewter chalice and I tried to figure out like who would buy Peter chalices and come to find out people to go to renaissance festivals people that have Dungeons and Dragons game oh yeah that'd be cool yeah right um so for me that's kind of interesting like my love is marketing and so each one is like a little marketing opportunity so I totally dig that's so that's that's a really interesting point because that's a different type of challenge I mean the same type of challenge just multiplied many times over because you know a lot of the handmade stores then and I guess if you don't like doing what you just mentioned right absolutely stay out of the vintage area because you get to do it like over and over and over against if you love it that's awesome but the handmade you know they tend to find a niche and this is their type of customer and the whole brand is about that my customer is you know this age you know this gender exedra likes doing these things and everything that make us sticks to it mmm but you know you have the other approach you can go to estate sales you can say okay Peter chalice like who wants this thing and you learn about them and all of a sudden one of your customers is gonna be completely different than the other customer you know because yeah you have like a nice fancy bracelet over here you have some sort of like you know massive cooter I'm just thinking what it is now but imagine like massive pewter chalice that like a king from Renaissance Festival is going to be having right and totally other ends of the spectrum as far as customer yeah it is interesting it can definitely well I think that that a couple of things going on there number one you have so many more opportunities for people to find your store so I think is a vintage seller your store matters a lot your categories matter a lot how you hook your stuff together and then you know the other hand of it so if you guys want to look at a vintage store that is totally niched land of cute I found it yesterday it is full of little ceramic tchotchkes like dogs and kittens and owls and bears and like all everything in her store it's crap that your grandma had that you think oh my god you know like and you should see the reviews like I get the most amazing reviews oh my god I got this pair of scissors and it looks so beautiful on my desk and I just you know I'm like really okay I mean I feel like that you know like I have stuff on my desk my little lamp I tipped up as an old dear lamp and you know I got my my I think you can see uncle say I'm back there and you know but but it really is there what people who are selling vintage have to realize it somebody's buying and buying an experience they're not buying a product right like not buying a pair of 40 year old scissors because they think they're gonna work well these must that's one of the things that if you're gonna do vintage you really got to be thinking hey what what can I do and then there's a huge so my ebay friend I was telling you about we had a huge fight and we continued to have it she thinks she should sell things that sell right like she's about making money she's about you know finding things that sell and we'll talk about that later because I have ideas about that but I'm all about I want to be surrounded by things that I love even with the stuff I'm selling so I see lots of stuff at you know thrift stores and yard sales and estate sales that I think could sell but I don't like it so you know it's very Airy fairy it's very much like do I want to have my home full of because this stuff's all in your home I'm sure yeah my home full of stuff that I love and like to mail out and like to list and like to do all that or do I just want to things that list for high yeah that's good point I could definitely see you getting burned out if you you're losing the passion and it's like okay it's round about this stuff now I just feel cluttered yeah right right this is not it and I think another thing that you have to do cuz I have a little a little agenda I feel like I have a list that I print it out to go hang out with my friend today because I'm going to an auction and I have a little list of things that have actually sold in my store right so I can go out and think oh my gosh these these bowls are gonna sell great I should buy all these bowls and you tend to do that because you can find lots of stuff and then you're like I have never sold a bowl like ever and so what really you want to do is to make yourself your own be on the lookout think so stuff I have sold on Etsy to give you an idea a sip dish a sword letter opener clubs eye scissors heart tins I sell lots of those Kleenex boxes oh my god yeah we're gonna talk about bathrooms because bathrooms are a hot place for me crazy oh I know switch plate covers we're going to talk about switch plate covers because they're not that and marma lead told me about that so switch plate covers sugar bowls like old-lady sugar bowls the the the silver ones so I think that one of the things another thing of mintage Etsy sellers have to do is make sure that they know what is selling in their store yeah because you can get way out of things with that mm-hmm point two right it's kind of like a balance between what you and your friend were arguing about about you know it's it's cool like you're saying to collect the stuff that you love right because it's it's more meaningful it's more enjoyable it's it's more fun to take pictures of it and explore the marketing aspect of it but if it's not selling at all then it's gonna just kind of be in your house forever you know so it's almost like there's a loss of balance there right yep well but then the other half of it is you guys had sent me a little list of things somebody left me feedback um I will turn that over because I'm obsessed so one of the things you guys had talked about is the one of a kind right yeah I have lots of things in my store that I'm able to find lots of like switch plate covers so everywhere I go I look for switch plate covers I dig around in ratty old sheds and find switch plate covers because it does have that more than one of a kind I already have a listing I don't have to look it up I've done the research you know so so it is possible as a vintage seller to do multiple things they're just not gonna be exactly the same no when you do that and when you have multiple switch plates for example do you copy that listing to a new listing and change it or do you you know wait till you make a sale on the the main switch plate listing and update that for the next switch plate that you have so that that kind of becomes like an ongoing listing that make sense to do is I have eight rows switch plates like I found a big stack of them and so I tend to copy the copy not realist but the ones that have sold because I figure if it's sold it was good enough to be found in Etsy search so why not copy that when it's already gone I'm not stepping on my toes um I also like to have my switch plates done in all different SEO and this is where marmalade came in I call it marmalade instead of marmalade oh no I from Pennsylvania and they are switch plate covers there is nothing else that you would ever like I was thinking what the hell else are you gonna call it it's a switch plate cover well come to find out everybody else in America calls them late switch covers right okay yeah I know but but so when I use marmalade and I started changing some of those over to include that light switch cover instead of what I just thought I started selling a lot more of them my store is very kind of highly ranked even for ones that I put up because I have lots of them and so I think that if you can find those little niches I call that section of my store architectural salvage so I have a lot of lot of switch play covers I have knobs I have handles I have all kinds of stuff like that there and I do think that's one of the ways you can skip that one-of-a-kind thing yeah but I was asked you guys like your thoughts of that I thought do you want to relist one of those because then all the links that were there would come back but I also think it might be a management nightmare right like which one sold which one you know you sold this one twice well no I didn't really sell that one twice I sold my account would hate me for that maybe if I see people listen they would tell us you know what that is if we should be doing a copy or we should be realistic now have you ever tried just relisting one listing our view I was copied I relisted one and something bad happened I mean like not puppies died but it was it was confusing like my accountant yelled at me and they said you know I'm really afraid of my account there's people yeah it just wasn't it wasn't like clean it wasn't them like really because it's not the same thing I guess if it was exactly the same thing and you were gonna list one and then you had eight of them you're gonna list one and then sell that one and then pull another one out little bit yeah I only have two things in my store that I have listed for multiples um I have I bought a big bowl of chandelier crystals and they're all the same so I have two listings with lots of chandelier crystals but even when you're selling the exact same switch plate because they're vintage they're not the same one has more rust one has eggs on it one has paint on it you know they're just not the same so so I don't know that we have that same opportunity to list multiples even with similar hmm so that's an exciting thing so I don't know I don't know if Ritchie wants to jump in on here here too but it's my understanding and I don't think Etsy has ever come out and explicitly said this but there definitely seems to be a sense that there is such a thing as like a sales momentum so as you have a listing and let's just think handmade for a moment as you have a listing and you're selling something handmade and it starts to gain traction and get more sales Etsy really seems to take note of that and bump you up a little bit higher in the rankings or maybe you don't have to renew as frequently as some other people might to stay near the top of the rankings now I don't know if they can they have confirmed okay so we know that's the thing they did in one of those discussions I don't even remember which one but what are the discussions of the forums you know the ones where there's like 30 some pages of comments and stuff they did in so many words they said that there is a performance factor in ranking because someone mentioned that now so many people have observed it you know and it's like hey we're really thinking there's something here to it but yeah finally in one of those that did confirm they said there is a performance factor but they didn't say what exactly it was yeah they said performance factor they meant to mentions engagement but from what we've heard from different shops is if you have a listing that has been selling it'll get bumped up how that translates to vintage yeah good question exact that same you know like they say more the traditional SEO where I like that link juice right like can you keep that even if you copy the listing I'm not quite sure that way because I have both the digitally and the other one and if it kind of feels like the same thing if I sell something today the chances of me selling more today even though they're different listings yeah are a lot higher than if I haven't sold something in two days like it's it's now the cool thing about selling vintage is you are a little bit competing with people but at the end of the day like how many cops or pewter chalices are there there there just aren't that many or how many owl planters with big eyes are there there just aren't that many thanks one of the things that along with this though that I really thought of is with vintage it's really easy to fall into this trap of I'm only gonna sell things that are twenty thirty forty dollars or more and I don't want to mess with all these little things right because you can find little things to sell but I do think going back to Richie's thing if that performance does kick in you do want to have those little things to sell even if they're almost a loss leader or you're just breaking even on them so that you keep that little selling engine going mm-hmm no it also wouldn't surprise me inside of the vintage space if Etsy realizes that people aren't going to be having this same sort of situation as handmade listings where I could have 12 of these in vintage that's not as common I'm sure right so maybe they even translate that performance metric back onto the shop moreso than individual listings so that's where you could see if you're copying a listing it might not necessarily be copying over the performance of that listing that you're that you're grabbing from but it could be you know having a factor on your shop as you get more sales and they see that your vintage listings that you have across your shop are giving you a boost in performance versus the individual listings if that makes sense yeah I believe that they do have a performance metric on the entire shop and it makes sense whenever people like why does that you do this I like to explain it as you know that sees this middle that's he's the salesperson right they don't make the product they're not the buyer they're not the seller they're middleman so it's kind of like if you know if I needed to sell something to you guys I don't know what it is but you know I've got a car full of stuff I've got thousand products in my car I can bring in like five of them to show you which ones am I going to bring in I'm gonna bring the ones I think you're most likely to sell you know people all up and down your street have been buying these you know five products or one of these five products those are what I'm bringing you know I'm gonna put my best foot forward whatever is it's sort of the you know selling what sells but not quite sort of right selling what sells of the things I'm willing to carry right but the things that I have I'm going to present the ones I think are most likely to sell it if you if the shop you know if your shop even if it's vintage handmade whatever it is if it has a high sales rate right compared to the competition compared to the others I could wring I'm gonna keep betting on that same horse even though it's a different listing you as a shop must be doing something right mm-hmm maybe it's your about page you know maybe it's just the way you present yourself and professional people like it you know that's good for everyone's good for the buyer good Fred see good for the seller I agree I really do so you had talked about sourcing yes you know sourcing I am going to an auction today Oh beer stuff for sale and so I used marmalade when I go to the auction which is awesome so today at the auction I have a list of probably 40 things that I would be willing to buy they show the pictures of them and I'm like okay there's 40 things there that I would be willing to buy and then what I do is I go into marmalade and I do the little competition thingy welcome so salt sellers are little dishes glass dishes about yay big that you're supposed to put salt it right they average cost of sale for those is $29 they average 14 views a week and there's almost 4,000 competing sites competing uh sorry my vernacular stays on SEO competing listings and you guys Marmi lead said that's not a very good one it's okay but it's not very good the competition's too hot right so because I already have someone probably get them but I wouldn't necessarily pay up for them right like I'm gonna pay 10 bucks for ten of them but if I can't get them for that I'm not gonna pay 50 bucks for 10 of them cuz I know I can't make my money back mmm and did amethyst glass which averages 33 dollars a sale but there's 24,000 competing products that seems bad like a walk that's a lot so then there's duck decoys I was like okay duck decoys that seems good holy crap you guys had green all the way down your life is amazing decoy the duck decoys so they average 65 dollars a sale they get 4.4 views so they're not like everybody on the street is not looking for duck decoys yeah but there's only 1900 competing products for them and so I'm totally buying the duck decoys right and and then things that you wouldn't think of like folding rulers perplex me they're those old like so they sell for an average of $24 they only averaged three views they're 888 competing items and and you guys are like this is there it's not a great thing um eBay hates up like eBay if you're doing the competing sales on eBay like they sell for $3 each mm-hmm but I think this is one of those things that you could buy and hold and they have brass on them they're a little bit nicer folding rulers so but I'm saying with with knowing to go out and source I can really quick use marmalade to check and see and I'm like I am NOT buy and none of that amethyst glass because there's like half a million people already selling it but the duck decoys I know are worth paying up for that's productive very exciting that's pretty cool so when you go to these auctions do they publish a list of everything ahead of time always is that common that they do that cool yes so as a vintage seller you could do that the other thing I think that that kind of marmalade and your own personal sales which is self-fulfilling prophecy because it's what you bought but I hear all the time people want these be out beyond the lookouts be on the lookout for bolos is big in my world and I think that there there is some value to bolos like if you have nothing else to do sit there and search for vintage stuff and see if you can find things that that marmalade says is low competition there's no category pages and things like that so that was I I love that for that that's pretty cool that's a really cool way of thinking about it of kind of like doing your homework ahead of time and your when you get there you're already armed with all the data that you need to be able to make a decision based on price right because even though the state sales are at thrift store like people hate good well they like goodwill has started merchandising their stuff they're charging more and so you really need to know if you're gonna pay six dollars for this vintage item can you make $30 can you make $60 what can you honestly look at that oh I mean you have to know that and that's a really quick way to get lots of them done at a time what's a lot of you stuff whether it's you know real estate cars really anything they say that if you're going to invest in that with hopes of selling it that you make your money when you buy it not when you sell it right you have to buy it under value exactly yeah don't just count on you know being better at selling it later on right you make sure it's a good value exactly so my next tip for vintage peeps is working with that see okay and I think this matters more and this is I kind of stopped some of the things to Richie and so I heard one the programmers say you know those style things that nobody likes to use or I guess the home you know they have made people like the styles boho cottage cheap country-western and wordy and it's in the bottom right the guy said that it doesn't show up anywhere but they use it okay and I'm like it's there why not use it and so I think one of the things with vintage is you've got to figure out if you like some of these styles if you go my way right or if you can categorize your thing as that so I have a little it's it's a little stand with a with an angel on it it's gold it's beautiful with a white cup in it it's for your bathroom it's god-awful like it's just god-awful but it is Hollywood Regency okay that's that's the style of it so if ladies are looking for Hollywood Regency they want the glitz and glam they want the bathroom they're doing all that and they're doing those searches so not only can you put it in your title and your tags you can think that style and I think that's super super important to do so that's exciting that's nice yeah I know right um so you guys focus a lot on something that I don't think anybody else is really paying attention to and it's the category pages I am obsessed with the category pages okay so vintage is really different than everything else right so in vintage there's only certain categories the top there's only one two three four five six eight top categories so like accessories which is clothing clothing which is clothing bags and purchases which is clothing so now you have literally five other things to do jewelry which is clothing so now you have four other things to do bass supplies and tool home and living art and collectibles and toys and games so when you're buying I would really be looking do any of these things into those really top-level categories of vintage because if they don't you're gonna be hurting and I'm trying to think of something okay stuff I sell on eBay that wouldn't necessarily sell on Etsy faucets like vintage faucets for hoses I don't know that people could find them on Etsy unless they were searching for that very specific thing right because you don't like categories don't support it yeah yeah so I think that's really important so let's talk about my bath so in bathrooms there's only 84th vintage bathrooms there's only 84,000 items total for all of vintage bathrooms I think yeah I came from the Googler and 84,000 is nothing like that I can crush 84,000 and one of the big ones is bathroom decor okay that's where my little thing goes in right there's a there's an angel I should go find it it's here somewhere um I'll send you a picture you can include it on ice yeah we'll use it as the postal mail yeah so vintage bathroom decor drum roll please only has 3,000 items in it are you kidding me that is nothing like I would say 2900 of those people don't have any idea what they're doing yeah we're not doing SEO they're not trying a price they're not taking picture they're not doing so I think his vintage colors there was a really cool category I'm gonna not swear at least the bad ones and top-level domain a venti of a bathroom is bath mats and rugs there are 92 items in their own way so as of ended seller you could absolutely start going and looking for items that are even close like if it's a regular rug I might be tempted to list it in vintage bathrooms and rods because there's only 92 items there right I just thought that was super interesting and I love marmalade I think that that whole thing about the category where you need to know because I was listening something I wrote this in that post I sent you guys I was listening something and I went to the category page and looked and the item I had wouldn't even have been on not only it wouldn't have shown up the category it was him didn't show up yeah I was like this is crazy I have to find another way to describe this thing that will come up in that search and after that I can do whatever I want with it but if I'm gonna be that far buried it's not gonna be worth my time to do yeah that's a really good observation that's that's a good thing that I think even people who are doing handmade you keep that in mind like that it's really limiting when one of your target your strongest keywords you know great yeah I mean then you're competing on two levels you're competing for that search and then you're competing for just them to picnic like please pick the category I'm in are you kidding yeah so I have two more things to talk about and then if you want to talk about SEO we can or we might run out of time so my next one is Pinterest mm-hmm we were lightly talking about Pinterest before yeah yeah dudes don't get Pinterest as a vintage person you need to start looking at Pinterest and figuring out what what human beings are saving because it will tell you how to categorize stuff in Etsy so what I did was I went to bathroom and underneath bathroom when you do the search they have a whole bunch of little goodies so I did the core and then they had storage under bathroom and they had organization under storage so you don't need to be going and looking when you're looking insourcing is this something that I could have put into bathroom storage right because you could share all those pins onto Pinterest and have a whole nother sales channel just pulling into your store and the cool thing is is when you do that search in the top of Pinterest you'll see you can check all pins your pins so I went and did that today and I am freaking horrified because I don't have my stuff done well enough to show up I looked up bathroom decor and my ugly angel chick is not there because I have bathroom decoration oh isn't anything mm-hmm so one of the ways that you can kind of start to see I know that it's it's a marketing channel but it's also a marketing channel because Pinterest has a metric poop ton of data that says that that's the way that ladies categorize things right right yeah I like very insightful that's great market alpha yeah cool yeah but then you can see what it is so like some of the things were organized makeup right like so if you can source things that help ladies organize their makeup they really care about that a medicine cabinet organization who do like that's that's kind of cool mason jars oh my gosh the mason jars are out the wall well if you can buy a whole bunch of mason jars you could sell them as supplies or you could sell them to ladies who want to use mason jars to do their their bathrooms and my last thing is shite that's easy to SEO I am using the crap out of myself when I when I do this okay think about how much easier it is to SEO a menorah than a mason jar right like people are specifically looking for menorahs I bought the coolest little statue I'm not big on buying tchotchkes it's I'm not the land of cute butt watch the statue because it was a Scottie dog and people buy Scottie dog stuff they buy wiener dog stuff they want Siamese cats they want you know that there are very specific things that you'll see out in the wild when you're doing vintage that have very specific names or categories or followers that you can absolutely like if you see a Scottie dog anything by it because there's ladies oh the bunnies dude I have no idea but old ladies love bunnies like more than life itself when you go to vintage places I'll tell you there are rooms full of bunny clowns Oh bunny rooms and if old ladies are buying bunnies that means that other old ladies are on Etsy yeah I don't make this stuff up but you want to be realistic like that's the kind of thing like do I want to have a bunny store no that's not really my jam god bless them up to sell them to on yeah there you go someone has to right so do you have any questions like did you know anything really about vintage you know our experience with vintage isn't as much as as with handmade every now and then we'll get people that engage in the Facebook group and stuff like that about vintage things so to go through this and here you know your perspective on the stuff has been absolutely fantastic Ritchie do you like vintage now you want to go out to some estate sales and sure you know yeah I wait to go to sheds and look for some light switch plates oh you should have seen that shed there was crap falling down and I think there was a rat this sounds enticing I'm selling it hard everybody was well liked tonight though for the auction we go and have margaritas first oh that's nice that's good it sounds like a whole different experience it sounds really interesting I mean you actually have to go out and find these things which is really interesting and you know like you said you got enough margaritas first it's something interesting like you're going out there and doing part of this as a community so that's kind of nice you know you're getting out of the out of the workshop or what not right well I just think you know I was just really excited number one I think if anybody's selling vintage hopefully they got some ideas about ways they can do SEO or ways they can get started because I think a little bit of it is we tend to have our own little groups and we say do you know what this is and people will be like oh that's a hobnail teal egg holder okay good it's factually correct right and so if something is literally looking for a hobnailed tealight holder I am your gal but the problem is that you're gonna sell more if you can appeal to people who are looking for a certain kind of thing like an antique handle holder yeah they don't know exactly what they're looking for they don't know the actual perfect name for it right but they know what use they're trying good job they want it to do for them exactly and I think for vintage a lot of times we can get very insular and all the people that we talk to go oh I love Fenton glass or I love like and nobody else really cares they just want a white candle stick with the bumpy on right and so I think that's a really big deal I think the more that we can well only the people that use marmalade but the more that we can be good at SEO the more we're going to crush all the other people that which is what I want to do like I'm I'm really nice and I'm really fun and I like to do marketing and I like to help people and I'll tell you all my secrets but at the end of the day I want to sell more old than anybody else oh that's something that that you know normally does help me do and that knowing I see oh that's really unfair because I know it so I did want to kind of ask you about that a little bit with the beginning when you're talking about the pewter chalice right and you had to kind of like you like the challenge of marketing to that specific thing I think there's a lot of people who are in a in kind of the opposite boat where they look at that and they're like oh my gosh I don't this is so difficult for me like how who would want to buy this right oh it's someone who likes vintage things right that's not gonna get you very far you need to be really specific you called out Renaissance Fairs and people doing Dungeons and Dragons right those are two very specific but probably very accurate ways of targeting the people who would be interested in a listing like that how do you do that how do you start if you're someone whose mindset is somebody who likes vintage I don't know I can't get past that what how do I even find my target audience how do you go about solving those challenges that you like to solve so much oh so first off this is my absolute like god-given talent is to figure out who's gonna buy crap okay you want to figure out I have a little knob this isn't a vintage knob it's a new knob right but it looks like Alice in Wonderland so you have to figure out who would like something that's a little whimsical so it could be for a child like nursery it could be for somebody who's a little crazy it could be for an art room or a craft room or whatever and so what you want to do is you really want to sit there and just think about that person you know if if I have a angel glass thing um I have to think who would really want to buy this this is gonna be a girly girl man so first off right off the bat she is wearing pantyhose every day and she has powder in her bathroom right like that's the lady that's gonna buy this she needs to have enough money to afford my tchotchke because it's not inexpensive um and and then you want to kind of picture her bathroom like you want to think glitz and glam and old Hollywood and gold and and glittery and think all of these adjectives because I do think that we need to have really heavy SEO on the front end of your listing so that they can if somebody's looking for an actual thing they can buy it but then if the end is the long tail of it we get so many characters to do this and you want to think about that woman and what she would be looking for old gear tools right paint scrapers right so this is a paint where my husband had a nervous breakdown because I had this big old paint scraper metal handle spackle on it sold that sucker for $14.50 right he's like who bought that it wasn't it was a lady who wanted a made in America product so first off made in America yeah and second off she liked the feeling of using something that was older right this thing is awesome I use this all the time I'm an artist I like to do all kinds of stuff with glue and and things like that I probably use this three times a week so I could try to sell this as a small paint scraper or I sell this to artists right mixed via artist yeah a pottery artist anybody who does things like that so I think yes get the actual use of it but then also try to think of niches of people that would want that we were also talking real briefly I actually wrote a little ebook about this in there is about figuring out who's gonna buy your style so exciting it really is super fun to try to figure it out this isn't like you know it is not like your plain Jade handmade sellers where you only get to pick one you get a new one every day like who's gonna buy this thing mm-hmm question about that done so with some of those bent like Gordon start asking and you were explaining like how you kind of nail it down to this listing and who it's gonna be and you really you know profiling them so then you have the SEO down and then you have of course your description part so for instance that knob you mentioned you know it could be someone's used this for like a whimsical kid's room or it could be you know different types of people so one path you could go would be talking about how it could be used in a kid's room another would be any of these other uses what are you put in the description then like to make sure that it's still compelling for the you know for the person reading it even though there might be in one of let's say three different groups so I don't count right like so for the first time in my life I don't have to fash like racked make my title and my description match it doesn't count for Jessica at all so I can say whatever I want so a lot of times I'll start it with oh my gosh I can't even believe how awesome this knob is I bought it originally to use on this that or the other thing or I saw this across the room at an estate sale and I thought oh my god I better get it before somebody else does and then I'll say I thought of oh this would be perfect in a baby's room or you could use it for this or that I literally just free-associate my product descriptions because I want the people to see that they're not this is the whole niche problem in anything you're thinking these things then everybody else isn't going to want to buy it I will guarantee if somebody's trying to match this knob they don't give a with my description I have five of these I need six she can say whatever she wants a bias and up right but if it's somebody who's on the fence who's like oh should I buy this whimsical knob or should I buy this whimsical knob and they say it is a gold knob 13 inches 13 centimetres wide I don't know how many centimeters um you know this that and the other thing is very factually correct or they land on my listing and they hit you know like somebody who's enthusiastic and happy and excited and oh my gosh you know they message me they ask me questions I think of what that their scissors lady but she's chippy pain is there oh and I'll take another picture for I'm like oh there's a lot of chippy pain if you want more you know but that's that goes back with you to the finish not buying a pair of scissors why experience owning a pisser it's very funny it's really like you I don't I don't do drugs but you could you acid and write your descriptions because they're they're not buying anything practical like if you need a sandpaper you're not gonna buy a forty-year-old sander you're gonna go to Home Depot so I'm not trying to attract any of those people I'm trying to attract the people who want something different you're now by any my stuff probably my husband thinks it's all you know he's like Oh everywhere oh he liked a lamp would lamp but other than that you know I'm not trying to convince anybody that it has a value I'm just trying to tell them what I feel the value is and why I love differs mm-hmm make sense it's very very strange it's it really is different than selling like if you're selling a necklace or you're selling your ring or you're selling um you know greeting cards or something that you're making you are trying to you know compete against a million other people you are trying to make something that they want this stuff is already made and it's already been loved by somebody else who obviously cared about it enough to have it in their house and to keep it for 40 years you kind of have to find the person who feels the same way you do who wants a ratty old you know Uncle Sam and tool boxes instead of you know drawers from Michaels and things like that you really have to find those people mm-hmm makes sense no that makes sense it's definitely different and yeah especially my talking with vintage stuff like and you put it out how many markers throughout where there's very few listings because it's not like someone can just make them if they made it right now it wouldn't be vintage anymore so it could be someone even some of those low you know low volume low engagement type things it could because there's nothing out there to really click on like I'm in a search and if I'm looking for something like the knob for example right I have five hundred six and I'm gonna keep looking I'm gonna keep coming back and look until one pops up and it's gonna be a waiting game right and and people who like vintage don't want something new like like my worst place to go is Walmart I go there and I'm overwhelmed by the plastic of it all and you know I will take the rat in the shed with crap falling on my head all day long to where it's just there's no to me there's not nothing there now my mother-in-law doesn't want anything that isn't brand new so she is not my target market and if you're trying as a vintage seller you're trying to convince people to want old stuff stop doing that yeah you too you know you want to preach to the choir you want to let them know oh my gosh the patina on this on this silver is amazing Pina is actually just where it has you know tarnished but don't don't polish it like somebody could go right now to Macy's and buy a fully polished thing they want that whole block yeah yes absolutely emphasize of Antiques Roadshow where people bring things in and they've had something cleaned or you know fixed over the years and the appraisers will be like you know if you hadn't messed with this it would have actually auctioned for a lot more than it would now that you have messed with it exactly so that's another thing that people ask me I'll attack Mike and I fight with she's are you gonna clean this I'm like no I'm not going to clean it she's like there's uggs on it and I'm like the pictures have the uggs it's not like I didn't put them on after I just the pictures but but that's a big question in the vintage seller still asked should I clean this I likely clean like I sent out a trade today it had a bunch of rust on it was really pretty it was a blue tray with flowers on it it had had some rust on it and I did like I did think there was a little bit of uggs on it so I just cleaned it with a very mild cleaner but I was not gonna fix the rust that's that's what they bought mm-hmm yeah people can get upset about that even the clean like you just mentioned a very mild cleaner in the little bit I do know about vintage and like antiques and old stuff yeah people are very particular about did you wet you cleaned it what you use what you touch this with you know they're very particular about it it doesn't matter how filthy is it could smell and they'd be like I much rather you not touch it oh because they're into that you know either they have somebody that refinish the stuff for them or likely they're actually into doing it themselves too and they would much rather not have someone else kinda like you know mechanic that has like a car that is like their car and they're like no no such is this car you know that's an awesome point Ritchie so one of the things in my description because you're always wondering like like how do you fill out this description right so I have a listing master and I talked about like where I got it because they always ask me anyways they're always like do you know the history of this item yes I got it in an old dear who died house I'm always like no I got it at the home of a lady who was a huge collector of bunnies and she had the neatest like I tell a story about it right kind of money and they like to the dimensions of it and then I do the condition of it and I tell them exactly the condition of it this deer lists he tips a little bit to the right you could probably bend it and make him stop tipping but I'm not going to do that right so could I get more money if I was willing to try to snap off a brass leg probably but I'm not gonna do that so that's a big part of what you can talk about and it's so funny that the condition being bad is actually a benefit to a lot of us yeah that's character yeah it's character my computer right now is sitting on a ratty ratty box that is metal and it has chips on it right I could have bought a computer stand but that isn't how I you know that isn't what I like I like ratty old boxes so there you go and I think a lot of marmalade is good for us as far as research as far as oh the storm thing that is really good for when you're kind of doing those same kind of like light switch covers or you know if you are doing amethyst glass or you are doing Fenton glass or hobnail glass you guys don't know what this is but you know people that are doing that you can start collecting some of those things and the other thing it's doing is it's reminding me that hobnail glass is farmhouse whatever the farmhouse thing is farmhouse decor and I think that will really help sell it too that's kind of the the Pinterest of it mhm nice yeah that's good to hear that's awesome to hear my favorite places that actually sells libraries before yeah that does sound fun I did want to call out to the e-book that you mentioned earlier so this is a sweet book that you have put together and you're offering it up for free for anyone who's interested obviously it targets vintage sellers and anyone who's interested in picking up this book and do so at your website which is marketing artfully calm slash vintage seller eBook yes so for ya for anyone who's interested go check it out it's a it's a really nice book that Tara's put together and she has she's put a lot of thought into it and a lot of her expertise goes into this book so if you are a vintage seller it's probably a fantastic asset to have and familiarize yourself with a lot of the things that she's talking about in there yeah I think if you're a seasoned seller there's maybe some stuff that you haven't thought of and if you're thinking about starting it really walks you through like shipping and niches and sourcing and all of that so it's it's pretty comprehensive I did functionally what I did was I wrote three giant blog posts because people kept asking me questions and then I cleaned it all up and I put it you know really easy to understand format with the PDF so it's easy to read yeah I love we love talking to you too that's been fantastic and I still want to pick your brain about SEO so I'm thinking maybe we can punt that to another episode and have you back again later and maybe we could talk about the difference between Google SEO and Etsy SEO and help some people kind of really understand that there are two completely separate beasts they are and I think that the other part of the thing that people are missing there is Google shopping actually favors Etsy so I think they get confused by that they're not picking up on your SEO they're picking up on it Etsy as a whole because you'll see it'll tip back and forth and you'll be there and then I Bailey will be there Etsy and that has more to do with programming than it does to do with anything that we control mmm and I mean I can see to you even with Etsy's advent a new announcement of having the ability to do Google Ads right from within Etsy against your listings it's blurring the line and it's probably adding more confusion than anything to people who are trying to make sense of what SEO means for them well I have the perfect example of if you have 30 more seconds sure people who would do Google ads as opposed to Google promoted ads rather than promoted listings right so I have a client who I do stuff for and she sells doggers they're beautiful they're hand crafted and if your pet size where your cat dies your dog dies it's very but it's a super specific niche yeah right so you have all the people in the world who could possibly buy an expensive pattern and then you narrow it down to people that want something ceramic and that wants something here made and then when you take that additional step and say I only want to talk to people who are on Etsy that makes the buyer pull really small right like that's an incredibly small buyer pool for something that's very targeted so we are offered listings entirely and on only Google listings and so I know she's got at least one feel from it she doesn't sell a ton of them mm-hmm but but that's the kind of thing that you want to look at is is is the buyer page within Etsy for you to support you and if so then just you know sell the crap out of your stuff there but if you do sell something that's really really specific like that where the buyer pool may not be big enough that's when I would go to the Google mm-hmm that's a great point that is a fantastic point make sense yeah so thank you so much Tara for doing this thanks for coming on here and chatting with us about vintage stuff it's again something that kind of gets overlooked a lot in the Etsy space you know people I don't know if it's because the majority of people on Etsy happened to be handmade or what but it's something that doesn't get as much attention as it probably should so this has been a fantastic yeah absolutely definitely love to have you back and chat about SEO another time oh that's good do you do frozen or on the rocks frozen salt my friend does rocks and you know man it makes them mix the option better perfect okay alright and for everyone listening go make yourself a margarita now because your mouth is probably watering and we'll see you guys next time on Etsy Jam you